Railwayclub.info main
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
23.10.17 , 11:10

Login with username, password and session length
Home | Help | Search | Login | Register | References | Blogs | Contact Information

railwayclub.info: train travel answers, travel deals

  discussion

    Other questions about railways

      Кто ездит на ИС+ Киев-Одесса-Киев

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5
Reply | Print
Author Topic: Кто ездит на ИС+ Киев-Одесса-Киев  (Read 21424 times)
Andersen
Active user

Posts: 1815


View Profile
« on: 19.08.14 , 18:08 »
Share Reply with quote

Who can tell me why anyone would buy a 366 hrivs ticket for #761 Kyiv - Odessa if one can go faster and cheaper by avtoluks?
Who are buying those tickets - others than a few train freaks?
« Last Edit: 19.08.14 , 18:08 by Easttripper » Logged
Dhr_Igor
Active user

Posts: 3257


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: 19.08.14 , 18:08 »
Share Reply with quote

1. Командировочные
2. Любители ж/д
3. Те, кого укачивает в автобусах
Logged
Maxy
Главный
Active user

Posts: 21145


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: 19.08.14 , 20:08 »
Share Reply with quote

if one can go faster and cheaper by avtoluks?
first of all - it's not so easy.
Yes, few (6 in current timetable, while there was only 4 not a long time ago) autolux services (so-called "VIP"-services) has travel time (despite nominal travel time ~6:25 de facto it is between 4:50 and 5:30, depending on road situation), it's faster than 761/762. The ticket price for those "VIP" services is higher, than rest of Autolux services (price 295 if purchased at autolux office, but in normal bus station ticket counter prices is something like 309 UAH)
At the same time all other Autolux services (and AFAIK all regular services operated by big bus) are NOT faster than train 761/761 (nominal travel time is 7-8 h, they also ride faster than stated by their timetable, but the difference of nominal and de-fact travel time is not so dramatical as in case of VIP-service, you can expect travel time something like ~6:45 if no traffic jams on the way). Yes, they are seriously cheaper than 761/762 (price is 225 in autolux office, 242 in ticket counter at bus station), but no faster than 761/762.
Also you must understand - students on railway has 50% discount.

1. Командировочные
2. Любители ж/д
3. Те, кого укачивает в автобусах
4. On peak days - it's often impossible to buy bus ticket not only to VIP-bus of autolux, but just to any serivce served by big bus (Autolux, Gunsel, etc) without purchasing in advance. Yes, marshrutka is almost always available on the spot (and travel time by marshrutka is usually little bit slower than VIP-autolux, faster than non-"VIP" bus and price is close to the price of non-"VIP" bus), but not everybody is happy to travel 480 km in marshrutka, some of those, who hasn't managed to get ticket to big bus prefer to overpay a little bit for 761

5. the main target audience, for which 761/762 could be the best solution in travel time aspect, but unfortunately price is not match well the purchasing power of this audience is - Vinnytsia. First of all - travel Vinnytsia - Odessa by 761/762 is faster than bus in 1,6-2 times (4,5 hours instead of 7-9 hours by bus, price difference here is not so unfavorable for railways as from Kyiv, for example Vinnytsia - Odessa by bus cost 177 UAH, by 761/762 - 270 in normal 2nd class, and 243 by that cheaper car #4, so main reason of lower (than it could be) demand from Vinnytsia is not concurency with bus, but just high price level of price for purchasing power of potential passengers and possibility to travel dramatically cheaper by other trains).

For section Kyiv - Vinnytsia 761/762 is too overpriced (202 in normal 2nd class and 179 in that cheaper car #4), but in peak days those who hasn't manage to get ticket in advance often has no good choise (travel by marshrutka from Kyiv to Vinnytsia is very-very long and boring). Additionally for the students with their 50% discount in case if no places to other trains are avalialble and if they hasn't managed to buy to any other train in advance - it's one of best possible choises (with their discount price is cheaper than marshrutka, which costs already 120 UAH). According to my observation the quantity of free seats to 761/762 for section Kyiv - Vinnytsia is less than for section Vinnytsia - Odessa, that means that number of such students (or may be some of such passengers paid full fare) is more than passengers who use this train on section Vinnytsia - Odessa
« Last Edit: 19.08.14 , 21:08 by Maxy » Logged
Andersen
Active user

Posts: 1815


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: 20.08.14 , 13:08 »
Share Reply with quote

Very interesting thoughts, thanks.

On the strategic front, the demand for fast travel by bus has increased (4 VIP's turned 6), a market that the railway could dig into.
Once again it seems as if a fast daytime train connection Kyiv - Odesa only begins to make sense if it takes 5:30 or less (and include a restaurant car, btw).
You know I would do it through Tsvitkove (580 km vs current 655 km) but that is another discussion.

Also I think a mirrored connection might prove more popular with the passengers (morning from Odessa, afternoon from Kyiv), including for Vinnitsa.

Any idea about the average daily number of pass (point to point) on 761/762 in its current timeframe of 6+ hours?
Logged
LWIEV
Active user

Posts: 507


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: 21.08.14 , 19:08 »
Share Reply with quote

Train is also safer and more reliable.
Logged
Maxy
Главный
Active user

Posts: 21145


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: 24.08.14 , 17:08 »
Share Reply with quote

On the strategic front, the demand for fast travel by bus has increased (4 VIP's turned 6),
I afraid your imagination is too simplified.

The demand for "VIP" services Kyiv - Odessa exceeds the capacity of those 4 services for years. The reasons why Auxolux hasn't managed to increase number of such services before is bureaucratic issues. We probably never know why they've managed to beat those issues now and hasn't before. We could only make suggestions  if they just agreed the size of bribe for getting new licenses or just took advantage of the fear of bureaucrats before events in the country or something in between, but grows of demand (which is no doubt exist) probably don't have influence for this increase for 4 to 6 services.

Quote
Also I think a mirrored connection might prove more popular with the passengers (morning from Odessa, afternoon from Kyiv), including for Vinnitsa.
Didn't you thought about Vinnytsia - oriented timetable (without section Kyiv - Vinnytisa, with start at 6:30 for exampe from Vinnytsia and arrival back to Vinnytsia somewhere between 22 and 23. Taking into account this service doesn't pretend for money of passengers from Kyiv - it could be more moderately priced).
Unfortunately it's not obvious for average Ukrainians (both regular passengers or officials from Ministry) - such service would be helpful for Kyiv passengers too, because it eliminates passengers from Vinnytsia from direct trains Kyiv - Odessa and thus releases some additional places for passengers from Kyiv. 
Quote
Any idea about the average daily number of pass (point to point) on 761/762 in its current timeframe of 6+ hours?
Have no idea, AFAIK it's impossible to get from open sources, but it possible to write written request to UZ with such question.
Logged
Andersen
Active user

Posts: 1815


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: 25.08.14 , 17:08 »
Share Reply with quote

Thanks for the clarifications. The conclusion remains: Odessa is an increasingly important direction.
Unfortunately there is no reviews of the new IC train to Odessa on the forum yet, I would like to know whether the rails allow for a comfortable ride at 120 km/h Kyiv - Odessa on the IC.
Judging from several rides this summer on #901/902, where the renovated 1980ies wagons jumped heavily up and down and from side to side and made sleeping almost impossible, I would say than there are huge infrastructure problems on the Kyiv - Vinnitsa - Odessa line, potentially hampering even 120 km/h IC traffic (I am not even talking about 140 or 160).
The problems concern railroad switches as well rail stretches. I obviously can't tell what the nature of the problem is but the outcome (a bumpy ride) is really below the level of comfort the passenger should be able to expect. It might also be below the level of comfort provided by modern coaches on the Kyiv - Odessa "almost highway."

Infrastructure also seems to be behind the Vinnitsa - Kyiv trouble. I guess that before something is done to solve the (rail traffic congestion) problems on the Fastiv - Kyiv part, there can be no relief for Vinnitsa - Kyiv, including the increase in morning traffic from Vinnitsa and evening traffic returning from Kyiv as you suggest, Maxy?
Logged
XAN_
Active user

Posts: 1069


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: 25.08.14 , 19:08 »
Share Reply with quote

You must consider that IC+ have pneumatic suspension in contrast to classic "ЦМВ" cars.
Logged
Andersen
Active user

Posts: 1815


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: 26.08.14 , 16:08 »
Share Reply with quote

That sounds good with pneumatic suspension of cause, but it only goes for the Krjukov produced trains, not the Hyundai, right?
I still suspect that much more could and should be done in terms of maintenance and upgrading of the rails, including change of railroad switches, to make for a smoother ride at 120 km/h or faster.
We have to try it out :)
Logged
Maxy
Главный
Active user

Posts: 21145


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: 26.08.14 , 17:08 »
Share Reply with quote

Hyundai HCRS2, Škoda EJ675 and Pesa 620M/630M - have air suspension as well
Logged
Tags: kyiv odessa 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5
Reply | Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.135 seconds with 20 queries.
Google visited last this page 16.01.16 , 03:01