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        Пропозиція: IC+ Vorokhta - Frankivsk - Львов - Киев

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Author Topic: Пропозиція: IC+ Vorokhta - Frankivsk - Львов - Киев  (Read 6517 times)
Emblaze
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« Reply #10 on: 15.01.17 , 20:01 »
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Давайте тогда вообще уберем "лежачие поезда", сделаем Киев - Ужгород, Киев - Рахов, Львов - Харьков и тд. сидячими. А людям скажем, мол другие на автобусах ездят по 11 - 16 часов и вы в поездах наслаждайтесь удовольствием. А вообще сидя, если вам так нравится, можно ехать и в купейном вагоне и на постельке сэкономите.
В купейном вагоне над головой нависает полка, к тому же пребывание в замкнутом пространстве купе с сомнительным климат-контролем (аммендорфы) от этого ничуть не изменится.
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Andersen
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« Reply #11 on: 15.01.17 , 20:01 »
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This theme is not about old Ammendorf wagons but about a proposal for a new intercity train still to be purchased. This is the third time I remind about it.
Why is it so difficult to understand?
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Ulf
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« Reply #12 on: 15.01.17 , 20:01 »
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This theme is not about old Ammendorf wagons but about a proposal for a new intercity train still to be purchased. This is the third time I remind about it.
Why is it so difficult to understand?

You didn't say where to get the money and how to fill the train south of L'viv with people accepting expensive tickets. This problem has to be resolved all year round.
« Last Edit: 16.01.17 , 16:01 by Ulf » Logged
Ulf
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« Reply #13 on: 15.01.17 , 20:01 »
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- Purchasement of a designated light 75-120 meter hybrid motor-wagon multi-class partly low-floor train (<700 kg per seat) with traction motors driven by electricity from overhead lines or generated by undercarriage mounted diesel engine(s) supplemented by supercaps and batteries.

Do you want to refer to https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_81500 , why didn't you? Wouldn't you add weight while adapting it to Ukrainian norms? Is it a good idea to carry diesel engines to Kyiv while they are not needed North of L'viv? The electric parts of https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_82500 would fit better but they do not sell the shorter version at the moment...
« Last Edit: 15.01.17 , 21:01 by Ulf » Logged
XAN_
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« Reply #14 on: 15.01.17 , 21:01 »
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- Purchasement of a designated light 75-120 meter hybrid motor-wagon multi-class partly low-floor train (<700 kg per seat) with traction motors driven by electricity from overhead lines or generated by undercarriage mounted diesel engine(s) supplemented by supercaps and batteries.

I you want to refer to https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_81500 , why didn't you? Wouldn't you add weight while adapting it to Ukrainian norms? Is it a good idea to carry diesel engines to Kyiv while they are not needed North of L'viv? The electric parts of https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_82500 would fit better but they do not sell the shorter version at the moment...

Oh, but this is diesel+DC centenary train, which is only half as painful as diesel+AC centenary, as in the second case train must accommodate both bulky diesels and bulky transformers, which results that at any given moment train is hauling some dead weight, regardless of mode at the moment.
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Ulf
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« Reply #15 on: 15.01.17 , 21:01 »
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[...] refer to https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_81500 , why didn't you? Wouldn't you add weight while adapting it to Ukrainian norms? Is it a good idea to carry diesel engines to Kyiv while they are not needed North of L'viv? The electric parts of https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_82500 would fit better but they do not sell the shorter version at the moment...

Oh, but this is diesel+DC centenary train, which is only half as painful as diesel+AC centenary, as in the second case train must accommodate both bulky diesels and bulky transformers, which results that at any given moment train is hauling some dead weight, regardless of mode at the moment.

You did not manage to open the second link which indeed shows diesel + DC/AC.
« Last Edit: 15.01.17 , 21:01 by Ulf » Logged
Andersen
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« Reply #16 on: 15.01.17 , 21:01 »
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I picture UZ purchasing a total of 15-20 short, high speed (200 km/h or 160 km/h upgradeable to 200 km/h) and widebody train sets for regional and intercity services.
Ideally it should be a combination of hybrid and overhead-line-powered-only trains with lengths of 75, 100 and 120 meter.

I haven't seen any existing rolling stock that fulfill all the desired criteria. Anyway a choice of train provider should be subject for tendering and further technical considerations.
Will passive tilting for instance bring enough timetable gains to justify that feature as a must? At which lines - if so?

The Bombardier built B 82500 you are referring to might be one among the candidates to be considered for adaptation to use in Ukraine (widebody etc.), if the producer would be interested in such a deal at fair price.  

Other possible candidates for developing for use in Ukraine could include the Bombardier Talent II, the Stadler FLIRT3 built for (and in) Belarus and the Croatian Koncar built HŽ series 6112 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C5%BD_series_6112 - but it too early to speculate about that.

Compact, undercarriage mounted diesel engines and traction batteries mounts to only 5-10% of the service weight of a train set, so no, I don't think it is a problem to carry them over long distances where the boggie mounted traction motors are powered from overhead lines.
Independence from time and resource consuming loco changes en route is a must in ensuring future competitiveness for the railway over other means of transportation as the roads are getting repaired and low cost aviation might become a factor in the transportation landscape of Ukraine.

The new but slow, expensive and wrongly timed #749 should be an illustration of what to avoid.
Of how ill fated you can end up attempting to cut corners using loco hauled trains for services across electrified/non-electrified lines in Ukraine.
So carry the engine with you, sure.

But the power unit should be modular so it can be removed/replaced with relative ease in case of electrification of the line it serves, or if there is a need for re-motoring at a later point in time.
« Last Edit: 15.01.17 , 21:01 by Andersen » Logged
Ulf
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« Reply #17 on: 15.01.17 , 21:01 »
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I picture UZ purchasing a total of 15-20 short, high speed (200 km/h or 160 km/h upgradeable to 200 km/h) and widebody train sets for regional and intercity services.
Ideally it should be a combination of hybrid and overhead-line-powered-only trains with lengths of 75, 100 and 120 meter.

I haven't seen any existing rolling stock that fulfill all the desired criteria.

[...]

Independence from time and resource consuming loco changes en route

I find it still okay for L'viv. By the way, by opening a tender for your desired trainsets without promising to buy them, you will get no offers. If you fix a Maximum Price, you might get no offers.
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Emblaze
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« Reply #18 on: 15.01.17 , 22:01 »
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It may be relatively slow and somewhat expensive for peresichni, but its timing stays catchy all the same. So even in its current embodiment #749 might and should find its swath of passengers.
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Iwan
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« Reply #19 on: 16.01.17 , 10:01 »
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9 часов сидя - с нетерпением жду этого поезда.
Найшвидшим автобусним рейсом Ясіня-Київ ділянку Яремче-Київ можна подолати за 11:30 і попит достатній. Яремче-Київ через Чортків ходив за 16:30, і пасажирів не бракувало. Всі покірно сиділи і не стогнали.
Давайте тогда вообще уберем "лежачие поезда", сделаем Киев - Ужгород, Киев - Рахов, Львов - Харьков и тд. сидячими. А людям скажем, мол другие на автобусах ездят по 11 - 16 часов и вы в поездах наслаждайтесь удовольствием. А вообще сидя, если вам так нравится, можно ехать и в купейном вагоне и на постельке сэкономите.
7:30 - це не 9:00. А про автобуси згадав лише тому, що донедавна там тільки автобуси і були... власне в цьому полягала затія з Київ-Рахів, аби можна було лежачи проїхатись за цим маршрутом. Зараз там ще один "лежень" 143/144. Проте, є категорія пасажирів, які б не проти посидіти 7:30, бо це однозначно швидше, ніж будь який "лежень", а тим паче - будь-який автобус. Це альтернатива до "лежнів". Якщо є попит, то чому б не надати пропозицію? До Перемишля 6:40 якось висиджують, то ще якихось 50 хв потерплять. На кожен товар - свій покупець.
« Last Edit: 16.01.17 , 10:01 by Iwan » Logged
Tags: vorokhta Tatariv Yaremche ivano-frankivsk lviv kyiv IC+ 
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