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      Укрзализныця купит сразу несколько дизельных поездов

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Author Topic: Укрзализныця купит сразу несколько дизельных поездов  (Read 22241 times)
Andersen
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« Reply #60 on: 17.03.17 , 00:03 »
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Please, first class at your service :)
How do you expect to get "european" service in a country where there is no government support for the railways (unlike western countries where the government pays for the infrastructure, for the signals, for the rolling stock, for the VAT and for half of the operating costs), where new trains cost near-to western prices due to imported parts and mismanagement and where the ticket price is around 1/10 of what they are in a western country?
Why don't you ask Ryanair to re-configure their airplanes from 3+3 to 2+2 for your convenience?
Why don't you demand that the railway stations pay the trains for terminating at their particular station because it generates sales in the kiosks and the station's restaurant?
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Emblaze
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« Reply #61 on: 17.03.17 , 01:03 »
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I agree with the Kruykov criticism insofar that I don't understand why the trains shouldn't be 3500 mm wide and accordingly house 2+3 seat in second class.
Second class with 2+2 on 1520 mm gauge is waste of money.
Second class with 3+3 is pretty much unusable though, especially middle seats. I often see passengers freely percolating from second class 3+3 to half-empty first class 2+2, particularly on the long legs of Rotem or Tarpan routes.
« Last Edit: 17.03.17 , 01:03 by Emblaze » Logged
Andersen
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« Reply #62 on: 17.03.17 , 09:03 »
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Do these passengers pay for first class? Or they just silently resettle?
We got to realize that UZ is a low cost carrier. Using a 2+3 seating arrangement in a 3500 mm wide train rather than 2+2 in 2900-3200 mm wide trains in 1435 mm gauge Europe is one of the few available ways to lower the per-seat cost of purchasing and operating rolling stock. Take the evening IC+ Kyiv - Kharkiv (18:01). It often departs Kyiv fully sold out. With a 2+2 seating it would need to be 2 cars longer to house the same amount of passengers. At a cost of 30/9 = 3,3 million per car in average that makes an extra cost of around 6,7 million USD per train. Plus the extra everyday operational and maintenance costs, electricity etc.
3+3 can only be an option on third class, but if passengers "slide" from third class to first class without paying for it and the class regime isn't enforced by the personnel, then there is no other option but to abandon third class (and 2,5) on regional and intercity trains.
« Last Edit: 17.03.17 , 09:03 by Andersen » Logged
Sergio
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« Reply #63 on: 17.03.17 , 11:03 »
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Let me please, start fomr the last item and point out that your calculation is not correct. Eurogauge car is more narrow and has less weight. So car is cheaper, consumes less energy and has better acceleration.

Another point : classes and configuration other than 3+2 are not available in ukrainian DMU for the moment. So passenger has only two options  - use uncomfortable train, or choose another transport.
I mean, ukrainian trains sometimes are TOO low-cost. Ryanair and Wizz use more or less same chais as KLM or Lufthansa in economy. At least, with same size and equipped with armrest. Whereas I hardly can call the sitting place in ukrainian DMU as "chair".

I think, Kriukov factory also can use wider seats with armrests, and have separated 2+2 area (or even whole the car), and people will use it with pleasure.
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Iwan
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« Reply #64 on: 17.03.17 , 11:03 »
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Регіональна філія «Львівська залізниця» вже склала 24 акти-рекламації щодо якості виготовлення дизель-поїзда. Зокрема, у залізничників є претензій до якості дизельного двигуна, систем електроніки, автогальмівного обладнання тощо. А пасажири скаржаться на незручні місця для сидіння та малу відстань між рядами крісел.

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Керівництво Укрзалізниці свідоме того, що більшість приміських поїздів застаріло, тому у фінансовому плані на 2017 рік передбачені кошти на придбання шести нових дизель-поїздів.
Конкурс на їх придбання в трьохвагонному складі ПАТ «Укрзалізниця» оголосила 7 березня та приймає пропозиції від виробників до 31 березня. Очікувана вартість закупівлі – 1 млрд 62 млн грн, або 177 млн грн за поїзд.
... або 750 тис. грн. за одне місце @ 236 місць за схемою 2+3.
http://uz.gov.ua/press_center/up_to_date_topic/446791/


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Utopist
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« Reply #65 on: 17.03.17 , 12:03 »
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Если срок эксплуатации 40 лет и на каждое место будет продаваться 2 билета в сутки, то с каждого билета 50 гривен будет идти на стоимость самого поезда. Вроде и не много, но с учетом стоимости билетов, состав хрен окупится...
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Jyraff
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« Reply #66 on: 17.03.17 , 14:03 »
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Вдвічі менше - 26 грн.. У випадку песи на 157 місць буде гірше - 39 грн. Однак, скоріш за все, їх використовуватимуть на відносно коротких маршрутах типу Львів-Чернівці, Тернопіль-Чернівці і т.п., де можна 3-4 рейси в день робити.
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Sergio
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« Reply #67 on: 17.03.17 , 14:03 »
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Але ж і витрати на сервіс складуть не менше 200%. + персонал, електрика, простій, податки.
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Andersen
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« Reply #68 on: 17.03.17 , 14:03 »
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Sergio, we are not talking about existing trains but of new rolling stock. The seats should have high comfort no matter whether there are 5 or only 4 of them per row.
And they can all have armrests even if there are 2+3, that is a matter of specification. That's why I say: cancel the tender, rewrite the TOR/TD.

Why would a normal gauge train with 2+2 in second class and 1+2 in first class be lighter per seat than a widebody train with 2+3 and 2+2?

Yes, the seat price is around 40 hrivs per trip if 200 passengers are carried two times per day.
Which is why the train should work all day and make minimum 4 trips like Lviv - Frankivsk at 90 hrivs in average each =~360 hrivs.
« Last Edit: 17.03.17 , 14:03 by Andersen » Logged
Sergio
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« Reply #69 on: 17.03.17 , 14:03 »
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Anyway it is better to talk about real things. On one side we have real and existing rolling sock. On ther side we even do not have promises that new rolling stock will have some enhancement.

That's the tender objective: find and choose the party which does things better right now and not which potentially can do things better in the future. I vote for national manufacturer if goods are more or less the same. But in case of serious flwas - please, try the next time.

As for price - 40 hrn is unreachable (as I mentioned before).
« Last Edit: 17.03.17 , 14:03 by Sergio » Logged
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